To Stand or Not to Stand?
This article was originally published October 27, 1997 by our General Manager Johnny Fisher. We would love to have your opinion on the subject. Please look for another article on urination in the coming months.
Let’s not beat around the bush. Why do you stand up in the saddle when your horse is urinating? Although this question may sound humorous, what is probably more humorous is that I have developed an obsession with this question.
I operate a guest ranch in Colorado, so already my sanity comes into question.
It all started about 10 years ago. We had a new wrangler from Virginia. This woman had an incredible resume with numerous credentials in the horse industry. She was giving instruction to a group when one of the horses started urinating. “Stand up! Stand up!” she cried. The befuddled guest remained motionless. “Stand up in the stirrups when your horse is urinating!” she demanded.
The poor guest hadn’t noticed that the horse had changed positions and was now urinating. I, having never heard of such a thing, stood helpless in amazement. This was something big! Shame on me. I had been riding horses for years and I never once stood up while a horse was urinating. Think of all the pain I personally inflicted on all those horses! I discussed this new concept with this wrangler later that day. She explained to me in very technical terms about why it made sense to get off the horse’s kidneys and many other anatomical functions that went along with it.
Those credentials of hers were impressive, and gosh I had learned everything I knew form country hicks.
My mind is always seeking answers, and apparently those credentials never quite impressed me to the point that they fully convinced me. Recently, while attending a horsemanship clinic with a horseman that I like and respect, a horse stared urinating, the woman stood up in the saddle, and he pointed out that standing up in the stirrups was a good habit to develop. “That’s what riding a horse is all about - developing good habits.”
Why do you stand up in the stirrups? The question burned inside of me. I couldn’t ask the question in front of all these people. They paid good money to ride in this clinic; I couldn’t waste their time and money with my silly question. Ten minutes went by, my stomach was churning, and we were going over the importance of impulsion when my hand went up.
“Marty, I’m really sorry but this has been bugging me and I can’t stand it anymore. I’ve got a question.”
“Go ahead John.”
“Well, you see, everything that you have said today makes sense to me. Pay attention to the horse - he tells you a lot, etc… Why to you stand in the stirrups when a horse urinates?” (Some laughter from the crowd) “No, I’m serious. Has a horse said ‘man that feels good’ or has anyone done any research that proves that we should do this?”
Marty’s reply, “It just makes sense; you get off the horses kidneys.”
Now for the kicker. Well, I had to admit that I’ve done some experiments myself with tightening my belt and placing it over my kidneys and other unmentionable things. Frankly, I found no difference. I still did not have an explanation that was satisfactory for me.
Well, it is now two months later, and I’ve done considerable research trying to find and answer to my question. I’m not convinced. All of the horse gurus have done a wonderful job improving the lives of horses and riders the world over and have been able to explain to me all sorts of mysteries regarding the mind of a horse, but still don’t have a good answer to my question.
I would like to offer another theory on horses urinating. I think that they would prefer us to sit right were we are during urination. If you’ve ever noticed, a horse almost goes through a ritual to get ready for urination - this is true whether we’re on his back or not. Male or female, they get prepared and get balanced before the moment. I’m not suggesting that folks go to the lengths that I do, but imagine yourself, male or female, without the aid of a toilet, wearing a 20-pound backpack getting prepared to urinate. Then the backpack makes a major move on your back. It would be rather uncomfortable to now proceed, but you must.
The act of urination has nothing to do with the kidneys. The kidneys are involved in the process of making urine, but it is the bladder that is relieved during urination.
This may seem trivial, but so much of the horsemanship that I learned was because so and so said this, or does this. With the progression of good horsemanship, I would like proof that we should stand in the stirrups.
I’m waiting.
December 17th, 2006 at 2:32 pm
Not B.S. Great question.
Standing up in stirrups will help keep the horse balanced while he is squatting. Having weight on a horse’s back while his hind legs are in that position will make it hard for him to reset in his normal position. Also, lifting off his back will allow his back muscles to relax and not tense up as he is positioning himself to urinate and to reset position. It is just to make the horse more comfortable and in balance while urinating.
The kidneys have nothing to do with the last stage of urine disposal that is the bladder’s job, and that is above his plumbing not on the top of his back. You are on his kidneys everytime you are mounted and they are deeper than the muscles and that is one reason when riding to have a supple back.
Tom
January 14th, 2007 at 12:51 pm
I’m sorry Tom, but I just have to disagree with you. A horse remains perfectly balanced if I just sit in the saddle while he urinates. Also, lifting off his back does not allow his back muscles to relax. The saddle has bars that are to distribute the weight equally. Leaning or not, the same weight remaiins on the horses’ back. I still maintain that we do this so that WE feel better - we’re doing something for the horse.
I’m still sittin’, but thanks for the reply.
January 17th, 2007 at 2:13 pm
I would have to agree with Mr. Fisher, I had never even heard of this until now. I have never saw anyone ever stand because there horse had to urinate. Usually we laugh at whomever it is happening too and we go on without so much as an after thought. I have never seen this cause any discomfort to the horse.
June 12th, 2007 at 6:05 am
I have to disagree a little with John and Rowdy: it is true that the saddle distributes the weight on the back of the horse, but standing up and pushing the weight in the direction of the neck of the horse is very helpful for the horse not only while urinating but, mainly, when the horse is climbing up a steep hill (I am sure this is true using an english saddle, but I think it is the same also with a western saddle).
December 31st, 2007 at 10:55 am
I, like Mr. Fisher, have learned mostly from my own experiences and other hicks, however, it makes no sense to me that standing up in the saddle is assisting my horse to urinate as my weight is still on his back, whether my rear is in the saddle, or I am standing in the stirupps. Do some folks really believe that standing in the stirrups relieves the weight from the bars of the saddle? Again, I’m no highly educated horsewoman, but I’ve ridden and worked from the saddle since before I could walk….I don’t recall my horses using a different stance to urninate when I’m in the saddle versus them being loose in the pasture. I just sit still and remain centered and the urination goes as planned. I’ve owned several horses from birth to an aged death and I can’t say that the older they got, their urinary system failed due to me not standing in the stirrups while they urinated through the years….. No offense meant to Aldo, but I believe stretching out to urinate and climbing a steep hill are two different issues. I don’t believe my horse is relaxing any muscles to climb the hill like he does when he urinates. I will say that standing in the saddle during the horse’s urination may keep the urine from spattering onto your upper body as you would be further away from the splashes on the ground……hey….it has happened! I’ve had it spatter onto my face before!
March 11th, 2008 at 5:08 pm
I’m french and I think that this idea of standing up in the saddle to help horses while urinating or making an effort like climbing is coming from Europe. In France, we learn it in the first lessons: stand up in the saddle while your horse is urinating, when climbing up put your weight in the front of your horse and when climbing down put your weight on your horse’s back and your shoulders at the back too. I don’t know if my explanations are really understandable but to summerize I don’t know who’s right or who’s wrong, I think it comes from different habits of different countries. You should write your nationality on your comment! And maybe you’ll see… Friendly from France, Lucille.
May 5th, 2008 at 1:09 am
How about when a horse does a number two? I was always told to stand up in the stirups. I also agree with Lucille from France, it makes since when you go up a hill you lean forward. I just think it’s about your position and shifting weight. When a horse goes over a jump, we change position, lean forawrd and the horse stretchs out and over the jump.
My boyfriend totally disagrees and argues that the same amount of weight is still in the stirrups and therefore on the back.
I’m from Ireland and my boyfriend is from Australia.
May 24th, 2008 at 10:25 am
1. Anatomy wise, we are nowhere near the kidneys. A horse is a massive animal, and kidneys are a critical organ (even on humans they’re pretty well protected) so they are buried very deep. And if you’ve ever been in the OR when you are doing retroperitoneal surgery (equine or human) it’s quite a digging operation to get to them. There is bone, and like 6-8″ of muscles over them.
2. Physiology wise, as everyone has mentioned, the kidneys produce urine (a staggering quantity by the way) but you could remove the kidneys after filling the bladder, and the horse could still urinate. The bladder is safely inside the pelvis, where you could beat on the pelvic wings with a hammer (don’t), and the inches of solid bone plate (and the free floating nature of the bladder in the pelvis) prevent any external pressure from reaching it. And also remember, when you urinate (older men particularly) you bear down slightly (the Valsalva Maneuver), which is deliberatively putting external pressure on the bladder to force urine out.
3. Culture. I imagine that this is purely a cultural thing. Similar to being able to train a dog to only urinate out of the house, or on a “wee-wee pad” in an apartment, I am guessing that if the horse is taught by repetitive behavior that when it urinates the rider is going to stand, then heck, that will become the norm. Horses are not known for their deductive reasoning, so they learn pavlovian style. Riding western I never heard of this. I first encountered it in the highlands of Scotland, and have seen it only at places which have “English” riding as their primary style (this is anecdotal, I have not surveyed a wide number of stables.)
4. The shifting of weight. Simple physics tells us that standing does not take any weight off the horse overall. However, depending on whether you are riding english or western, you may be putting more of your weight on the chest wall with your grip of your knees, so standing actually seems to raise the weight directly on the back. That being said, squeezing from the side might be disturbing to a horse urinating (don’t know, I’m not a horse). As far as leaning going up/down, to me it’s more about not falling off (by association your horse would inherit your uncoolness if you fall off, so that’s a good thing for the horse) and staying in control (I can’t maintain a posture on a 17-20% grade without doing some serious leaning, which is easier if I can pivot by standing on the stirrups [western]). And for the record, I have urinated just fine with a large pack on my back, so I have to agree with above, although it is slightly more awkward.
I am basically saying, there doesn’t seem to be a physiologic explanation, and this is cultural training of the riders and horses. So do whatever your horse is used to (if the horse isn’t used to it, you may actually startle it when you stand.)
June 21st, 2008 at 8:13 am
OK i just heard of this a few weeks ago and I have been riding for almost 30 years so I had to try it out. I actually walked my horses in the paddock until they urinated. I had my husband stand and watch us. With all 5 horses when I stood up in the saddle the urine steam dwindled down for a second when I moved and when I stayed in the saddle it didn’t. So from now on I would rather sit in the saddle than to disturb the horse by shifting around.
August 10th, 2008 at 3:18 pm
I am a recovering Urination Stander-upper. I had the distinct honor of working with Johnny for three years and he was the one that opened my eyes to this particular subject. And now, as a Certified Veterinary Technician, I can say, from a medical perspective, it makes no anatomical sense to stand up while the horse is urinating. The horse goes through the whole process of positioning himself and then you suddenly shift your weight? Not necessary!
Sit down, people! Don’t waste your time on standing up.